WPCoffeeTalk: Emma Young

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to WP Coffee Talk with your podcast Barista Michelle Frechette, where we interview people in the WordPress community from all over the world. Every guest is asked the same questions and every guest has wonderful and varied answers about their history and their hopes. Special thanks to our espresso level sponsors, Bluehost, WS form and Beaver Builder. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And now on with the show. Welcome to WP Coffee Talk. I'm your podcast Barista Michelle Frechette, serving up the WordPress stories from around the world. And today my guest is Emma Young who is the head of content and WP community manager at Hostinger. Hey Emma, welcome. Hello. [00:00:45] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:00:47] Speaker B: It's so good to have you here. And our paths cross frequently at Word camps, WordPress events and everything. But it's nice to actually have some time to sit down and just focus because at Wordcamps we are always in such a hurry doing whatever for our companies. It's like, hey, I see you kind of thing, but it's nice to get a chance to dig in deeper and learn a little bit more about you. So thanks for joining me today. [00:01:08] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited for it. [00:01:10] Speaker B: My pleasure. So for those people whose paths don't cross with you on a frequent basis, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do. [00:01:18] Speaker C: Yeah, great question. How much time do we have? But yeah, I guess my journey to WordPress and hostinger is kind of all over the place, to be honest. So originally I'm from the states, grew up in New Mexico. Both my parents are not from the states, Korean and English, so they immigrated there. And then I grew up in New Mexico, which was like a mix of like Native Americans and, and mexican culture. So it's kind of just like, what am I? But this is awesome. And yeah, so I went to school there, graduated with a marketing and strategic communications degree, and I started to work like an advertising firm. And it was terrible. The worst experience of my life. I think I lasted like three or four months and I was like, I am not cut out for this. [00:02:07] Speaker B: I am. [00:02:08] Speaker C: I think I was just too soft, you know, like I was just. So I quit and I ran away to Korea and there I started teaching English. I actually met my husband there. We met at 711 alcohol aisle, where all romance begins, I guess. Yeah. [00:02:25] Speaker B: And then a little continues. Yeah. [00:02:28] Speaker C: And then like, I guess the fast journey is, yeah, we worked and lived there for a while, then backpacked around the world. I actually was barista at Starbucks. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:40] Speaker C: University and high school. And then I was one again in Australia, but very different vibes, like, because Australians. I feel like, love coffee way more than I ever realized. Yeah. And then kind of just a lot of jobs here and there. But what really took a turn was I was a video editor for a. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Skydiving company in New Zealand and quite the path. [00:03:02] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like, yeah, yeah. But I was like, everything takes so long. Like, how do I make this easier? I'm kind of. Kind of a lazy person. So it was. I started to learn about scripts and how to, like, code scripts to make your video editing. All you have to do is like, mark these things and it does it all for you. And that kind of sparked this, like, love obsession with tryhackme.com and I just, I don't know, I think I was on that for, like, just any spare time I had. And that kind of sparked me into learning code and then. Yeah, and then I was like, maybe I'll go back to school for engineering. That's. I can change it, you know, ten years later. And I didn't want to go back to school in the states because it was pricey. So enter Lithuania because they had a program there and then. Yeah, and then enter hostinger and I ended up finding, like, this beautiful merge of tech and marketing. And it was like a really weird way of getting there. It could have been a little faster, but. Yeah, but I got there eventually and, yeah, that's led to, like, so many new things doing. I've just started helping Bob with. Do the woo with Adam, actually. I think he was on your podcast not long ago and. Yeah, and then it's kind of, I guess we'll get into the rest of it there. But it's like, it's all centered around helping people, whether that's with a website or WordPress or teaching or something. But it's awesome. [00:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it took me, what, 53 years to get to the intersection of marketing and tech. So you got there a lot faster than I did. I'll just say that. [00:04:33] Speaker C: Thank you, COVID as well for streamlining that process for me. [00:04:37] Speaker B: Right. Like, there's nothing else to do. I may as well get another degree. [00:04:41] Speaker C: Yeah, I kind of feel like I'm going to be one of those people when I'm like, I don't know, on my deathbed that turned. This conversation turned, but, like, with like. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Seven degrees, I have a photo of myself that my mom took at my kindergarten graduation and they, like, they made it. They had them send in their. Send in one of their dad's white shirts and then they put that shirt on us backwards. Like, that was our little gown, like graduation gown. We made paper caps. And I'm holding this little kindergarten graduation or diploma. And I refer that. I refer to that as my gateway diploma to all the rest of the education I've ever done. So I get it. I totally get it. I've only got a couple. I don't have. I don't have seven, but you never know. Life's still happening. [00:05:27] Speaker C: So. [00:05:28] Speaker B: So show us your mug and tell us what's in it and tell us a little bit about what you ch, why you chose that mug. [00:05:33] Speaker C: This is a tiny mug that I found in the Airbnb that I'm staying in because that works, running away from lithuanian winter. So, yeah, they actually only have a few mugs, and the other one has. I don't actually know what the picture is, but I don't think it's very okay to show on camera. So I was like, let's go with tiny mug. And because it's the evening time, I actually put a little wine in it. [00:05:55] Speaker B: Good for you. I have been people, long time listeners of the show will know that I've often had things other than coffee in my mug, too. Sometimes it's water, sometimes it's bourbon. I mean, I don't judge. I think I've had kahlua in there before, so. And that's coffee. So, you know. Yeah. I actually got a new mug in the mail yesterday, so a friend of mine in California sent me a Christmas gift, and it was, I think it's a paper company. I haven't actually done the research because it came with a card that you could then send out to somebody else. But it was a pound of coffee, ground coffee. And then also this mug I'm going to show you, I think lavazza is how it said. Let me see if I can center this right there. [00:06:36] Speaker C: Oh, it's just. That looks familiar, that name, right? I know, but I don't. But I can't. [00:06:41] Speaker B: I probably should have googled it before I started, like, showing it on the. Well, you know, hey, that's my mug today. And it's. I thought it was bigger than it was. And, like, I use the keurig when I'm, like, in my office here. And it looked big. So I filled it, like, without leaving any room for coffee or for cream. I didn't realize. [00:06:58] Speaker C: Right. [00:06:58] Speaker B: So it's all the way to the top. So here I am sitting my office, using paper towel to remove some of the coffee. [00:07:04] Speaker C: You didn't do that little. [00:07:06] Speaker B: No, I can't stand it without cream and sugar in it. So I had to make room for cream and sugar. So I've got coffee, cream and sugar this morning. [00:07:12] Speaker C: Alrighty. [00:07:14] Speaker B: So we heard a little bit about how you ended up, but how did WordPress come into your journey? Like how did you start with WordPress itself? Was that through hostinger? [00:07:22] Speaker C: No, it's actually kind of like when, when I thought about like this type of question, it's like been weirdly common denominator for like throughout a lot of my life. So I had like blogs, very failed attempts at blogs. I actually had one at Starbucks. I talked about like all of the customers that came in and so if you were in Albuquerque and you were not nice, you probably were on my blog. [00:07:44] Speaker B: People do that on TikTok. Now I see all the stories. Yeah, yeah. [00:07:48] Speaker C: Because, well, I mean they're real like and they've been going on a lot longer than that. And so like I would just be kind of like, I got somebody else needs to hear about this kind of thing. And then when I went to Korea, I ended up starting another blog, but just kind of to update my friends and family from back home. I feel like it was still like MySpace era then. So I don't really remember using Facebook or putting all of that stuff on or it was still shifting from that old Facebook to the more modern one. So I used a blog, WordPress one, and then just kind of through all my weird jobs, used to daily for work and then now obviously I use it a lot more and it's a very big part of what I do for both kind of my responsibilities at work. But yeah, it's just kind of a communication tool I guess for me and getting out like my, my stories. [00:08:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. It is definitely. And all the things I do, people like, wow, you should blog more. I'm like, yeah, I should. Yeah. But when I'm writing blog posts for work and for my other work like post status and for, you know, for stellar WP, I'm like, I don't have time for my personal blog or inspiration at the end of the day, but I'm thinking about it, I'm doing more affiliate marketing. So I'm going to try to do some product reviews and things like that. And I actually have a hostinger account. So one of my podcasts is actually hosted on Hostinger. I believe it's audacity. Marketing is on the hosting, it's on my hostinger account. So at some point it'll be the most boring review ever, though, honestly, because I've never had an issue. It's like, hostinger works, yay. [00:09:25] Speaker C: That's good. [00:09:27] Speaker B: But 350 words is gonna be hard to come up with when something is just a product that does what it says it's gonna do. So I'll have to like talk about the people and all of that kind of stuff. But anyway, yeah, so anyway, at some point, yeah, I think I have an affiliate link. If not, I'll talk to you after the show. [00:09:42] Speaker C: Okay, sounds good. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Anyway, so that's where you start with WordPress. That's pretty cool when you look at websites across the board. So whether there's something you've made yourself or other people's, and it's okay to be critical, you don't have to name names, but what's something that you think that we as web designers, developers, web builders don't focus enough attention on that would actually make our sites better for the end user? [00:10:11] Speaker C: I hate to use the word, it depends, but I feel like I use that so much. But I think one of, like one of my pet peeves is, is it actually helpful, like whatever it is that you're doing or is it just like some click baity thing to try to like, get you there, but then it's like, pop up, pop up or like this link or that. So I'm like very big on not wasting my time or anybody else's. Like, so is it helpful? Like, is it, is it quality? Is it correct whether that's like something that you're offering or if it's like, more my world content and SEO? Like, I think, yeah. Is it beneficial for the person that's coming to your site or are you just kind of trying to get them there so you can get that traffic spike and then, like, don't actually do anything for them? So, yeah, more. More attention to that, less clickbait. Yeah, more quality. [00:11:06] Speaker B: So Buzzfeed is out then? [00:11:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:09] Speaker B: Just kidding. No, that's not what you're referring to. But have you noticed, I actually was noticing recently because of Black Friday and managing the post status page. Like, I was clicking through a lot of links just to make sure they work, that kind of thing. Parallax seems to be back, or at least the parallax type effect of scroll over backgrounds. And I was like, I thought we got rid of those. Aren't those bad for accessibility? Why are those back? So, yeah, I understand. Like, just because it's the newest, latest, greatest, whatever. I mean, Flash was a thing once upon a time, too, but please don't do that. No more scrolling marquees like, let's. Let's be accessible anyway. Yes. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. [00:11:50] Speaker C: That is a great way to sum it up. Yes, exactly. [00:11:55] Speaker B: In your WordPress journey and, you know, into where you are now, what's something that you wish you'd learned earlier in your time that would have made life so much easier had you known it sooner? [00:12:08] Speaker C: Oh, I think in a more, like, motivational way, it's not as scary as it seems. Like I was pretty discouraged early on. I can't figure this out. Forget it. But then it just would take like an hour or two or something like that, and I could figure it out, hopefully eventually, or break a few things here and there. But in a more technical sense, I guess, like headless WordPress, because I would like to do a lot of stuff myself. But again, it comes down to time. But, like, if I could get really good at it, then I could, like, give the excuse of, I'll just do it. Like, don't worry, I don't have to actually ask anybody to help me with it. Yeah, but, yeah, but I think in general, she'll think it's not. It's kind of overwhelming at the beginning, but it's actually not at all. [00:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And now I know you were talking about MySpace, so I think you might be older than I thought you were, but we have so much more access to resources like simply Google or YouTube, and you can usually find an answer to something. You might find five answers that contradict each other, but you'll find answers as to, like, how do I do this? And so it does seem to be a lot easier now than it might have been ten years ago or whatever. [00:13:25] Speaker C: Yeah. When we were just kind of, like, hoping nothing broke my space. [00:13:30] Speaker B: White screen of death, right. Yeah, exactly. So I know you've been to word camps and WordPress events because we see each other there. But when you think back over your experiences, whether it was meetups or wordcamps or whatever, what is maybe a favorite talk or experience, you had something that was a pivotal or inspirational moment for you. [00:13:53] Speaker C: Yeah, actually. So the first wordcamp that I went to was this year, and it was the word camp Asia in Bangkok at the beginning of the year. It's weird to say that that was this year, I keep saying last year. [00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah, when I was in Thailand last year. I mean, this year. [00:14:12] Speaker C: I mean, yeah, but, yeah, that one was the first one. And it was like, you know, the first, like, after COVID, it was pushed, I think there was a lot. It was, you know, you were. You were there. [00:14:23] Speaker B: It was amazing. [00:14:24] Speaker C: Yeah. The bar. It set the bar so high for me. And I was like, what is this world? And why haven't, like, why did it take so long for me to be and, like, be here and find these people? And, like, I think that, like, meeting teammates that I have never met before, like, Maya and Leo. I know you know Maya as well. Just, like, being able to, like, give them a hug and just being, like, around, I don't know, a couple thousand people that just, like, nerd out on the same exact stuff as I do. But, like, one specific thing. It actually wasn't a talk or anything, but it was the volunteers dinner, and it was the first day, and we sat down with, like, random group of people that were also volunteering on the AV team. And my face hurt so bad from laughing because it was, like, found, like we are. And, like, we had, like, the best nicknames and, like, all of the jokes were just, like, there was tears running. I had, like, we call the guy back pain. I'm gonna send this to him so he can hear that that nickname lives on. And, like, sad gummy bear. Like, those names make no sense. But it was just. It was just so good. Like, I was still smiling a week after it. Cause I was like, I wanna go to all of them now. You know, after that. [00:15:39] Speaker B: Right. I know. It's so hard, the fear of missing out on any single word camp, especially when you're scrolling through social media and you see all the smiling faces. Like, I know them. I should be with them. [00:15:50] Speaker C: At least carry a cutout of me. [00:15:53] Speaker B: Exactly. I know. I should just make. Have those made and send them out to people at every word camp. [00:15:58] Speaker C: I actually think I have a sticker of you. [00:16:01] Speaker B: You probably do. It's. It's the. The wapoobi. [00:16:04] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Of you. Yeah. [00:16:06] Speaker B: But I look a little different in that one. It's got purple hair, very jaundice. It does have purple hair and red glasses. So there you go. So tell us a little bit more, though, about what you do at Hostinger. So I know that you are community manager, head of content. What does that mean? And what are y'all? What are you trying to do? [00:16:27] Speaker C: Yeah, so the community manager thing is more recent, but for head of content. Yeah. I mean, I work with a lot of organic traffic, so billings and just organic everything. But our main goal is tutorials, so we do a lot of keywords to try to help anybody on their online journey and help them find success. In one way or another, whether that's like how to set up your email to your hosting or how to buy hosting, which type you need help, you create a website and then what, how do you get people there? So that's in a nutshell, the content part of it. So we also do like a lot of writing for other teams in the company. So if you need it, if we need YouTube scripts or if we need landing pages. So all of that writing and editing style guide, all of that consistency is our game. And yeah, we've quite a large team, so I love that I have a big team because I get to hang out with a lot of people from a lot of different cultures and we have a very global team, I guess you could say as well. So that makes everything fun, just like learning about each other and then on the WordPress side. So I just started contributing, I think a year and a half ago, two years ago, a year and a half ago. Somebody from work actually. Yeah, the month. This was like, hey, I think you'd like this. It's called documentation. It's like all the things that you like and yeah, they need help. So I looked into it and I was like, what is again? Like what is this world? And Milana brings you cookies. So, yeah, so I started doing that, got Leo and Maya hooked as well. And yeah, we've just kind of, it wasn't like a responsibility that I had. I just did it for fun because I liked it and that kind of, I think was how it like organically evolved into this role. [00:18:27] Speaker B: That's how you get hooked. [00:18:28] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like it went so well with what I was doing. Like, it wasn't like I was, I was gonna probably write the tutorial anyways, so why not just do both and, yeah, and if it helps, like, you know, WordPress at its core be better, then all the people that use hostinger will also have benefits. Yeah, because, yeah, foundation for, but yeah, and then, so the WordPress community kind of just kind of like fell into my lap. I like talking to people. I'll like just go up and say hello and introduce myself. And that worked really well in the community world, I guess it was just very beneficial. Everything happened very naturally. I think that title actually only happened like recent, like a couple months ago. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Or like a month ago. Yeah, I guess we should maybe call. [00:19:22] Speaker C: Me this because I kind of already feel like I represent hosting or in the WordPress community world, but just to put a little bit more of like, hey, yeah, come at me, like with nice things, but also with if something's not working, but yeah, that's been more recent, but it doesn't feel like any more or like what, other than what I was doing, it feels natural. Yeah, yeah, definitely. [00:19:46] Speaker B: That's good. And if somebody said to me, hey, would you contribute to the documentation team? I'd be like, are you trying to bore me to death? So I'm so grateful that there are people who like every different, every one of the different, you know, teams that you can contribute to because I'm not a coder, so I don't do that. You know, I'm like, I could write documentation, but do I have to? Like, that's me, right? And then you're like, yeah, I love this stuff. I'm like, oh, thank goodness that some of us are intrigued by all the different things. Right? [00:20:14] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I'm like, you know, I get excited if like, ooh, I gotta fix a header. Cause somebody capitalized it wrong. But then like, to some other people they're like, ew. Yeah, but I mean, I think that's also like a really nice thing about like contributing is there's so many things that you can do that's not coding. [00:20:34] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:20:36] Speaker C: Or writing if you don't like writing. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Also true. Yeah. And sometimes you can do multiple teams, like I am on community and photos and marketing, so doing all the fun different things that I enjoy doing. So, yeah, it's really cool. It's even better if your company sponsors you to do it so that you don't have to try to do it on the outside of your workday and things like that. But for those people who just want to be involved, it's a great way to do it. And you just go to WordPress.org and find it's right in the navigation there. [00:21:03] Speaker C: How to join teams. [00:21:04] Speaker B: So sweet. That's awesome. And Hostinger is managed WordPress hosting. So you guys make it easy, right? [00:21:13] Speaker C: Yeah. And everything is included. And like, I know, like some people say, like, oh, well, not everything is how managed is it? But it really is like WordPress hosting for the price of WordPress hosting for the price of not breaking your bank and still getting all of the benefits. Because like I said, like, at the end of the day, like Hostinger's mission is just to help you succeed online. And like, we're a lithuanian company, so we eat up a lot of the, I think, prices that some of goes into some of the hostings. Hosting prices. And yeah, it's just, it's ever evolving as well. So if there's ever anything that, like, we, we get feedback from somebody who's using it, it's like, oh man, I wish you did this. Okay, give us a week or maybe a month if it's hard, like, we'll figure it out. But keep giving us this feedback because we want to think of, do everything that everyone wants and then start to think of the things before they even realize that they want it. So it works best if people tell us. But yeah, like that's, that's the end game is like, it should be fully managed and, and yeah, I'm super proud of our product, actually. So I can very honestly say, like. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Go out and buy it, try it, try it. [00:22:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:28] Speaker B: So this is going to sound funny, probably, but, and I don't think this happens to a lot of people. I get asked to use people's hosting. [00:22:36] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:36] Speaker B: So the projects I do, they're like, we'll host you for free if you'll come over here and like, put us in your footer. And I love that because I used to spend literally thousands of dollars on hosting and anybody listening, I am sitting in a place of privilege. I 100% acknowledge that. Right, so this is the part that's going to sound weird though, is that sometimes I wish that I had trouble using the hosting so that I could at least give feedback because I like providing constructive feedback. And like, when it just works, it's like, well, that's great, but I didn't get to tell them anything. Yeah, like, the font was small on theirs. Like, I don't know, these old eyes, you know, make a little darker, a little bit brighter anyway. But yeah, no, I, it was so super easy to use and I was just super grateful to be able to, to use the hosting there. So thank you for that. [00:23:26] Speaker C: Yeah, that's awesome to hear. And I mean, like, I'm happy that, you know, nothing's breaking and, of course, and, but like, yeah, I don't know, maybe, like, it maybe doesn't have to be like, so constructive, but for anybody that's listening as well, like, if you're just like, yeah, like, I would prefer bigger font or, you know, like customizable font size. Like, maybe we should look into that, actually. [00:23:48] Speaker B: Like, I mean, I did just make that up. It was not an actual criticism, but. [00:23:52] Speaker C: Now it's a good idea. I'm like, tempted to go look and say, like, how big is our font? I know it has nothing to do with it, but just out of curiosity. [00:23:59] Speaker B: When people put a size ten font on their website and then they use some level of gray as opposed to level of black. And you know what I mean when I say that. Yeah. I'm like, do you just not like people over 40? Like, what is your problem? [00:24:14] Speaker C: I'll just show myself out now. Bye. Yeah. [00:24:21] Speaker B: Because I used to be that person too, right? Until it was like, I can't buy the glasses at the drugstore anymore. I have to have prescription glasses for everything. So. Yes. [00:24:31] Speaker C: I haven't seen those in so long. When the little containers and that's. [00:24:37] Speaker B: I'll bring you a pair. Are you going to work? Camp Asia? [00:24:42] Speaker C: Yes. [00:24:43] Speaker B: I will see you there. I'm starting to plan the trip myself, so. [00:24:46] Speaker C: Okay, awesome. Yeah, just. Just got my tickets on Friday. [00:24:51] Speaker B: Very good. [00:24:51] Speaker C: It's going to be a nice 34 hours journey for me. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Yeah, it was so it took so long to fly from Rochester, New York. I'm in the western part of New York to Thailand last year. And the way back was even worse, actually. Been in Taipei in the airport for 20 hours. Have a layover. [00:25:14] Speaker C: Actually, this is kind of a side note, but I'll have to tell you this story when we're there. But the last time I was in Taiwan, it was like final destination. Like, with me and my husband. Like, so many crazy things happened. So I'm a little like, oh, should I go back? I don't think they wanted me. I don't think the island wanted me. [00:25:30] Speaker B: The first time, it wasn't exactly welcoming. [00:25:33] Speaker C: Yes. Steer clear of me. Maybe we'll just wave from. [00:25:39] Speaker B: Wave across the room. I love it. Well, let's move into our rapid fire questions. As I like to joke, I will ask them rapidly. Take the time that you need to answer them. Okay, so the first one is, what are two or three must have plugins that you would recommend to somebody building their own website? [00:25:57] Speaker C: Oh, that's so hard. Can I say it depends again? No, I'm just kidding. So I feel like I have. [00:26:04] Speaker B: This is the most boring interview ever where everything was just. It depends. [00:26:08] Speaker C: It depends. Yeah. And, yeah, so I feel like I have to say something like SEO content wise. So yoast. But because I also think security is very important, especially these days, maybe like, word fence. I'm just picturing their big logo at Wordcamp us, and I can't remember what it's. Yeah. Is it like Sakuri? I think it's also a good security one. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:38] Speaker C: And then I think performance, performance one. So. Oh, drawing blanks. Like WP rocket. Okay. Yeah, WP rocket maybe. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't have to be any of those ones that I said. But something for SEO, something for security, something for performance would be good. [00:26:56] Speaker B: Perfect. I agree with all of those. At any point in your WordPress journey, have you had a mentor, whether it was an official mentor, maybe a boss or somebody that took you under their wing or somebody you just, like, looked up to and wanted to emulate the. [00:27:09] Speaker C: Way that they did business looking up to just reminds me of Rimkus because, like, officially, no, like, but unofficially, I think I actually did say that word to him. I was like, please be my mentor. Help me. No, bro, obviously he didn't say that because it doesn't sound like. But then he ended up helping me and I didn't do anything with what he helped me. So, sorry. But to be honest, I feel like so many people are, like, unofficially my mentor and, like, so welcoming. Like, and like, just in the, like I said, like this past year, anything I ask or they think about me, like, because they know I'm new. But Bob, Adam, Courtney, Robert, the other Robert, Robert, Jacobi, Robert with a hat like Alana, Harry, you like everybody, especially at word camps and in the community. I'm like a why person. And why did this happen? I just ask a lot of questions. I've kind of always been that way and everybody is very welcoming and like that. And I kind of feel like I lucked out and have, like, an entire community of mentors. [00:28:21] Speaker B: I love that sounds, doesn't sound cheesy at all. I actually love it. And I see the truth in that for all of us, I think. [00:28:28] Speaker C: Right. So. [00:28:28] Speaker B: And I love the fact that in our community, like, it was late at night, I was trying to help somebody else out, and I was having trouble figuring out how to use their hosting, not cpanel, but whatever they had in place of, like, cpanel. Right. And I, and they. I was on a zoom call and they got on the support. [00:28:50] Speaker C: Wait. [00:28:50] Speaker B: And it was going to be like 3 hours to get an answer. So I'm like, let me just post it on Twitter. Like, I had 72 responses within, like five, maybe not 72, but yeah, I had real answers within a few minutes. And then one of the community managers from that company reached out to me and said, hey, I saw that you had this experience. Would you meet with our people and just tell them what that experience was and why it didn't work and that kind of thing. So I was able to help them improve, too, because I was just inquisitive and had a million mentors helping me solve this problem for somebody else, which was pretty cool. [00:29:24] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. I love that. She probably had like 71 replies because I've seen your twitters. [00:29:30] Speaker B: Just kidding. [00:29:31] Speaker C: But, but yeah, no, that, that's like, that's a perfect example of, like, yeah, that's, it's awesome. [00:29:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And it wasn't a fault to their hosting at all. It's just my brain couldn't figure it out, so. And it turned out to be something super easy and I was like, oh, that was it. I guess I was trying to make it more complex. [00:29:47] Speaker C: But anyway, yeah. [00:29:49] Speaker B: Which is why I'm not naming the company because I don't want them to feel ashamed because it was literally user error. [00:29:53] Speaker C: But, oh, man, I was just gonna make a really bad joke and I feel like I have to say, did you try turning it on and off again? [00:30:02] Speaker B: I logged out and logged back in so many times it's not even funny. So you still didn't fix it anyway. All right, so pick one person and preferably not somebody who's dated before, but if it is, that's okay because you said a lot of people I know crap usually, like, if you can't say anybody, you didn't say before, but you just named half the community. So who is somebody in the WordPress community that you admire and why? [00:30:31] Speaker C: Um. [00:30:33] Speaker B: Oh, actually, you know what? [00:30:37] Speaker C: You know what? Now I'm crap and I'm drawing, like, blanking on her name. Sarah gooding, I think. Oh, yeah, WP Tavern. Yeah, I think maybe she's, because I've read her emails for newsletters for so long that it's weird not to have them recently. And I think it would just, yeah, like, obviously it's content realm and she's awesome. I would actually just like to, like, meet her. [00:31:08] Speaker B: I don't think I've ever met her in person myself and I would love to do that as well. So, and obviously wishing her the best in her next, her next job, which I think she announced, and I don't remember where it is that she's going, but I'm happy for her for sure. Yeah, no, I I could get right behind that. [00:31:22] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:31:23] Speaker B: I was like, oh, it'd be so cool to have that job that I'm like, hmm. [00:31:26] Speaker C: I would prefer to make the news. [00:31:28] Speaker B: Than write about the news. [00:31:31] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe too much pressure. I was like, oh, you know, I could apply. And I was like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. [00:31:41] Speaker B: I will not do let somebody else do that job. Anyway, what's something that you want to learn in WordPress but that you haven't tackled yet. [00:31:51] Speaker C: How to not break it. [00:31:52] Speaker B: Just kidding. [00:31:59] Speaker C: You can like, you can revert a lot of things but you know, it's actually just popped in my head because I said it earlier. It's like headless WordPress. Yeah, I think like I like JavaScript, I like react, I like coding, but I don't really know anything else about it. Like I know it can get like the potential of it. Like it gives your sites like flexibility. Oh yeah, just this nice little like shout out to headless like more potential. But yeah, I just don't, I haven't had the time to learn it and practice and do myself yet, so, yeah, that and not breaking so much, I love it. [00:32:39] Speaker B: You have good aspirations and I think that's a good thing to want to learn. So yeah, it's really all people talk about anymore is headless. I don't even know what it means, but I'll look it up, I promise, if I don't have to know it. I haven't spent time learning it. That's, that's the truth. So what is the biggest mistake you've ever made in WordPress and what did you learn from it? [00:33:01] Speaker C: I mean I haven't learned much from it but thankfully this wasn't my site or like hostingers, but I tried to help a friend and their workplace once and somehow I still have no idea how I did this but I deleted like 50 pages and like I couldn't find a back, I couldn't revert them, I have no idea. They just like poof, gone and, and I don't even know what I did. Like some phantom Hannibal came and I don't know, like just push something on the keyboard. I didn't do this, I'm so sorry. And I felt so bad so I ended up actually taking vacation days to fix it because I was like, I felt so bad for them. Let me republish all of this stuff. I still like sometimes, you know, like when you're trying to go to sleep and like those thoughts come back, that is like a reoccurring one where I'm like, did I click some random button and like, you know, like on some test accounts I'm like, what if I do this? Does it delete it and I still can't mimic it? It was like a one time thing and I clearly didn't learn that much from it because I still break some stuff but I at least I think twice before, like, yeah, I don't know, going to the big red shiny thing that's probably like alert something's not working. [00:34:17] Speaker B: What to do? I just imploded the whole site. Yeah, no, I understand. Yeah, that had to be like. And I can't even imagine the panic that went through you at that particular moment. And they had so much faith in. [00:34:30] Speaker C: Me, and they were like, oh, you. [00:34:31] Speaker B: Work with WordPress all the time. [00:34:32] Speaker C: Like, can you just help me with this tiny thing? Probably, like, changing the font size. And then I was like, yeah, sure, no problem. I changed it to zero. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Good luck. [00:34:43] Speaker C: It's invisible now, so. Yeah. [00:34:45] Speaker B: Whoops. This is so unrelated to that. But you just reminded me of, like, when I first started building websites, was back in my MBA program, and we weren't using WordPress or anything like that. You know, we were, and it was, gosh. Well, it was before WordPress because it was the year 2001, so WordPress wasn't even out yet. So it's all HTML, whatever. And the way that you did SEO, because there was, like, nobody talked about SEO, is you put all your search terms at the bottom of the page in the same color font as the background. So it's like all these keywords at the bottom. White font on a white background. And so if you come, you know, if you highlighted the page, you could see them. They show up. But, yeah, that was how we did it back in the day. And, like, what? [00:35:33] Speaker C: Bad? [00:35:34] Speaker B: How bad was that? [00:35:35] Speaker C: You know, I wonder if anybody does that, that now. [00:35:38] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sure they do. [00:35:40] Speaker C: I'm gonna look. If I find one, some, like, old site, I'm gonna send it to you. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Yes, please do. I would. You'll be like, michelle, it says it was made by you. No, I'm kidding. All those sites are gone now anyway. Oh, yeah. What's your proudest WordPress moment? Sometimes it's easier to think about the things that went wrong. [00:36:06] Speaker C: I know for, like, a personal kind of win was, like, words post COVID. Like, I had, like, pTSD with people. Like, I just. I've always kind of been an outgoing person, but I was like, oh, my God, you mean there's going to be, like, thousands of people in one place and we have to, like, say hi, guys. Like, normally, like, this doesn't scare me. Like, but I was noticing that, like, before that, I was saying no to, like, dinner parties, and, like, I'm like, no, I'll just, like, watch Harry Potter for the 100th time. But. So I kind of put myself in an even. Like, I had to go over and beyond, and I was like, let's go to the first wordcam, and then let's volunteer as an interviewer. And then, so I was like, so I have to talk to people, like, because they're depending on me. So that, that was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be. And so I was very proud of that. But in like a not, I guess, in a work related, growing our traffic and getting from our tutorials and then in like a more educational way, because I do always kind of think it's nice when people can learn. My husband, who is a teacher, set up like a WordPress site for his students because I work with it so much. And he, it was cool to see, to show them. Basically they did like, the content writing prompts in class and editing, and then they got to design the website, learn how to upload it, manage the site, and see how cool and fun WordPress is for that younger generation, and then they can take the project on themselves. So that was kind of just a cool, kind of goes really well with the next generation WordPress. [00:37:51] Speaker B: I love that. That is very cool. Whatever I bring anybody, I don't care if they're, I mean, yes, the next generation, we absolutely have to focus on it. But if I bring like a 50 year old, a 70 year old into WordPress, I'm like, score. Like, I don't know, it's like almost, I want to say it's not a cult and it isn't like, I got another one, but it's like you helped somebody be able to express themselves on the Internet or sell something on the Internet or have that little, you know, piece of themself out there. And I think that's really super cool, for sure. [00:38:22] Speaker C: Yeah, it is definitely empowering. Yeah. [00:38:25] Speaker B: So if you weren't working in web tech at all, what's another career that you might like to try? [00:38:33] Speaker C: I'm not surprised that I'm in tech, to be honest. Both my parents are computer engineers. My brother took a way different, different journey. But to be honest, I think like something very simple, like, like a nursery. Not like for babies, a plants out there. I'm a plant mom, but like a plant store nursery. And then like, kind of have like a yoga studio in the back. So just like good vibes, fresh air from the plants, pretty things to look at, maybe like a brewery or a bar in the. [00:39:05] Speaker B: It's. [00:39:05] Speaker C: This place is just growing, you know. [00:39:07] Speaker B: I mean, I'm gonna visit. [00:39:08] Speaker C: I'm not gonna lie on the beach, you know, like, and then you can exit your after your yoke, like, go walk right into the sunset. But yeah, like yoga plants, those things make me happy. So something like that. [00:39:20] Speaker B: I see monstera behind you, so I know that one. My daughter plant mom herself. [00:39:24] Speaker C: So. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's see. Oh, what's something on your bucket list? I mean, you've done so much. You've traveled so far and done all these things, and. And I also want to know if you did jump out of a plane when you worked at that place. Have you ever skydive? You did. Okay, so that's not your bucket list, though. You've already done it. [00:39:41] Speaker C: And I had to, like, you know, be extra about it, too. And I was like, I gotta go over white sands, and then I'm gonna go over the great barrier Reef, and then I'm gonna go over, like, the mountains, so. But I probably won't do it anymore. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Like, that was. That was good. [00:39:55] Speaker C: Bucket list. I actually was thinking about this last night because I was like, I don't actually know, but I think walking the Camino de Santiago in Spain and then seeing, like, the northern lights from, like, an igloo when it's snowing, it's, like, just making it harder and harder for this to happen. But, yeah, I have a feeling if. [00:40:16] Speaker B: Anybody could make it happen, you will do it. So, yes, you can manifest that. Absolutely. Show us or tell us about a hidden talent that you have that people in the WordPress community might not know about, you know? [00:40:31] Speaker C: Okay. So I read this question, and I've been trying so hard to think of something, and I was like, I can just list all the things that I don't have a talent for instead. And I was like, it was just gonna be so much easier. I don't know. I feel like some of the stuff is just like, okay, I was just kind of taught how to do that, but I do. I feel like if I say this, though, it's like it's gonna. No, no, I just say it, but I feel like. Yeah, ever since, like, I was a kid, I feel like my superpower, I guess, is making people feel comfortable and, like. And I've always just gotten in the weirdest conversations. Very weird, very deep. Someone just has to get something off their chest. I could just sit down, waiting for a flight, and the next thing I know, somebody's telling me this whole thing and silly here. I have no idea why I just told you all of that, but I feel so much better, and so, yeah, I don't know. I guess that's somehow a talent. [00:41:30] Speaker B: It is, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's innate to you. I'm sure. It's not something you could learn it really is something that's just as part of the fabric of who you are, if you will. For sure. So anybody interested in connecting with you, how can they do that? How can they find you online? [00:41:47] Speaker C: LinkedIn probably be the best and most successful. I'm pretty terrible with Twitter or X or whatever it is. If you look at my profile, it's just like I'm at Wordcamp. Let's meet up. And then nothing again for like four or four months. So, yeah, LinkedIn. [00:42:02] Speaker B: I should notice that. Yeah. [00:42:04] Speaker C: Sorry. [00:42:06] Speaker B: I tried. I tried. Not really. You'll have to send me the link. We're probably connected already, but we'll make sure that that's in the show notes along with any of the other links that you provided beforehand and anything we've talked about during the show. And we will also have a transcript of this full episode on the website. All you have to do is go to wpcoffeetalk.com, find Emma's episode. It will all be there for you for sure. Is there anything else you want to share with us today that I neglected to ask about? [00:42:36] Speaker C: No, I don't think so. I think we kind of talked about a lot. I do see my face getting darker and darker. I feel like I should open up this curtain. No, no, it was great. Just like. Thank you for having me. This was a lot of fun. [00:42:47] Speaker B: My pleasure. Thank you for being here and for everybody else. We'll see you on the next episode of WP Coffee Talk. [00:42:54] Speaker A: We hope you enjoyed this episode of WP Coffee Talk. Please share it with others who you know would enjoy hearing from the people who make the WordPress community the wonderful. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Place that it is. If you are interested in joining us. [00:43:06] Speaker A: As a guest or a sponsor, please visit our [email protected].