Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to WP Coffee Talk with your podcast barista Michelle Frache. Special thanks to our sponsors WSS Forum and Beaver Builder. If you're interested in joining WP Coffee talk as a guest or a sponsor, please visit our
[email protected] and now on with the show.
Speaker 1 00:00:20 Welcome to WP Coffee Talk. I'm your podcast barista Michelle Ette, serving up the WordPress stories from around the world. And today my guest is Mohammed Moiz Moiz. How are you today?
Speaker 2 00:00:32 I'm good, Michelle. How are you?
Speaker 1 00:00:34 I'm good, thank you. And remind me again where you're located, because I don't remember what city you're in.
Speaker 2 00:00:40 Okay, so I'm in, uh, Karachi. Uh, it's the biggest city in, in, in Pakistan. Uh, yeah, on the financial level. So yeah, I'm based out of Karachi.
Speaker 1 00:00:49 It's not the same time where you are. Where I am here. It's 11 o'clock in the morning. I'm guessing it's around 11, 10, 11, 12 o'clock in the evening where you are.
Speaker 2 00:00:57 It's, it's actually 8:00 PM over here.
Speaker 1 00:00:59 Okay. So not too bad. I didn't make you get outta Yeah, it's alright. I didn't make you get out of bed to record <laugh>. No,
Speaker 2 00:01:05 Not at, not at all. It's, it's tea time here, actually, so.
Speaker 1 00:01:08 Oh, very good. Perfect. Then. Well, I won't keep you from your tea for long, but I'm looking forward to this conversation. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:01:14 Yeah, I'm, I'm going, I'm just gonna have my tea while we are on the session, so it's all right. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:01:17 That's okay. We're gonna talk about that, your mug and your team in a minute, too. So, um, so first tell us, I, I didn't tell everybody what you do, you are the cloud waste community manager and marketing team lead at Cloud Waste, so that's pretty cool. I love that. And I love the fact that you and I have got to work together on some things before Yeah. Um, that you've been so kind to include me on for Cloud ways. So it's good to have you on my show this time instead of the other way around <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:01:43 Yeah, it's great. It's, it's an honor. It's an honor, actually. Uh, it's a, it's a fan moment for me because since I've been within the WordPress community, I have like followed a lot of people, uh, and you have been one of them. And you, I've, we followed you very closely over the past few months, obviously, since I've been working in community and you are pretty much doing the same thing, you know? Uh, yes. So for, for a long time. So to get inspiration from what you are doing, how you're running community, building community and interacting with people. Oh, thank you. So it's some, yeah, you're someone who I have looked up on, you know, for quite a long time. Well,
Speaker 1 00:02:12 Thank you. I think that you're doing an amazing job. So to think that I have any part in that, I'm very humbled and very honored. Thank you. Um, so tell us a little bit about, I mean, I know what you do 'cause we basically kind of do the same thing, but tell everybody else, you know, who a little bit about yourself and what you do at Cloud Ways.
Speaker 2 00:02:29 All right. So, uh, I've been with Cloud Ways for about six years, and I've been part of the community ever since. Uh, but very recently I got involved within the WordPress community and got to know them very closely. Uh, it's been like two or three years since I've been, uh, leading the community initiative at Cloud Ways. And what we basically do within community at Cloudbase is that if we have followed cloud ways for the past five or six years, you would know that Cloud waste is a very community led product, right? So it's something that a community is one of the core, uh, foundations of, of cloud ways and WordPress, you know, being, you know, uh, the majority of the shares with, with cloud ways. So we focus a lot on what happens within the WordPress community and how we can contribute towards it, right?
Speaker 2 00:03:13 Contributing to what WordPress is one thing, but making sure that our presence is there and we do as much as we can to support the open source, right? So, uh, this is what I do at Cloud Ways. I look after, uh, partnerships, I look after community initiatives. I make sure that Cloud Ways is, is there, there is a good image of cloud ways, uh, all year round within the workplace community. And then obviously we have different applications as well. There, there is P H P, there's Magento, so I kind of look after that as well. But Mo mostly focusing on WordPress and what happens within the community, how cloud wastes can contribute towards it, events being one. I have been very recently involved within events, uh, especially since WebCamp Europe back in 2022, uh, where I was there with, uh, my other teammates, uh, and then WordCamp Asia, and then WordCamp Europe again, and then WordCamp US this year where I have been managing all the stuff in the backend, but I'm not exactly being there this year.
Speaker 2 00:04:06 So, so this is, uh, like all that we do at Cloud ways, you know, making sure that we are there within the community. The community members like yourself and others are, you know, appreciating cloud waves and remembering us within good words. So it's all about that. I mean, we can't, uh, make sure that, uh, we get the sales, obviously that's not what we do <laugh>, but we, but we make sure that there is a good image of cloud waves within the community, and that it persists over longer period of time by building, you know, uh, meaningful partnerships, not necessarily mm-hmm. <affirmative> based on business, but based on, uh, mutual respect and mutual com community work.
Speaker 1 00:04:40 I love that. That's wonderful. Um, and you seem to really enjoy your job, which is really awesome. And we're gonna talk a little bit more about Cloud ways and what you do in a little bit, but I've got some basic questions first. So the first one I always ask everybody is to show us your mug and tell us what's in it.
Speaker 2 00:04:56 Okay. So this mug, lemme just tell you a bit about this mug. Yes. So this mug is, is from when we organized a WordPress Karachi Meetup. Uh, back, back a few months back, it was Cloud Ways and WP Expert, WP Experts is another WordPress company based out of Karachi. So we organized, uh, Karachi Meetup, uh, which was a huge success actually. There were a lot of people, a lot of students, agencies, uh, ss, e o people working within WordPress, uh, people who are learning, you know, how to build websites on WordPress. So I was one of the speakers over there as well. And one of the organizers, and this is, uh, the mug that we distributed to our, to our attendees, and within this mug is, is a cup of tea. So, uh, let me just tell you one thing about Pakistan. So in Pakistan, you won't find a lot of people drinking coffee, right?
Speaker 2 00:05:40 <laugh>. But we are a nation who are obsessed with tea, uh, because, uh, no matter how hot it gets, it's never too cold in Karachi. So it's almost, even if it gets cold during December, it, it gets around 15, 16 degrees Centigrade. Not, not colder than that, but right now it's around 35 mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we still drink a lot of tea. I mean, whether it's 50 degrees ate or we don't leave, uh, the house without having a cup of tea. So within this cup is a cup of tea that I'm having right now. It's, uh, around eight to 5:00 PM which is mostly, you know, tea time in Karachi. Uh, we sleep, uh, very late over here, so mm-hmm. The lifestyle is not exactly the same as you might have experienced, uh, in your, in your region. So this is, uh, the time where we mostly, you know, sit at a coffee table and have a cup of tea. So this very nice is a, a cup of, uh, tea that I just made a few minutes ago, <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:06:28 And that's your, your WordPress 20 years celebration, it looks like the birthday mug. Yes. Yes. So, and I think I saw, yeah, I think I saw pictures online that with you had a cake and everything else at that party, did you not? Exactly. Yes. Yeah, that was wonderful. With that picture, with that picture on it. Lemme show you my mug. My mug is older than yours. My mug is, I can never move things. Right. You'd think after all these years I'd understand cameras, but, um, Robert, Robert Wesley in college, I graduated college probably before you were born, back in 1991, and this was a mug that I got when I graduated from college back in Oh, nice. Back in the day, as they say. So, and I, you, you
Speaker 2 00:07:06 Have kept this mug ever since
Speaker 1 00:07:08 I have for many, many years. And someday it will probably break or, you know, disappear or something, and I'll disappear long before it does. I don't know, but it's kind of a nice little memory to have. Um, and I'm drinking coffee. It's still morning here, so Coffee with Cream and sugar. Okay. So <laugh>, um, nice. How, how did you get started with WordPress?
Speaker 2 00:07:30 Alright, so, uh, as I said before, my journey with WordPress started with Cloud Ways, right? Uh, I'm a business graduate. I am not someone who is very sound with technical stuff or, you know, know how to build websites. I learned, uh, a bit of that when I joined Cloud Ways, because in order to learn what cloud ways is, I had to learn WordPress is right and how, what websites are, and how they're built, and what is cloud and what is, uh, storage and everything. So I had to learn all that while on job. So, uh, my job was to, you know, market the product. Uh, I wasn't initially within the community, but I was part of the marketing team. But, uh, my skill set and something, uh, you know, and the way I communicate and everything, people around me thought that I'm better suited for community and actually love that because it's something where you interact with people a lot, you get to know them, you share a lot of things, uh, with people who have, you know, a lot of things common with each other, with each other.
Speaker 2 00:08:22 So that is something that I love, and that is where I get got started with WordPress, right? And I started to learn WordPress, uh, how to, you know, build websites on WordPress. I'm not exactly a, a developer right now as of, but I still know, I mean, of the basics of how we can build a website and what, you know, hosting you should use. And if any anyone comes with a fit, fit, some help on, you know, getting to know how, what hosting that, that person should use and how to build a website, I can, you know, give a few tips and tricks. But, uh, that is how it got started in WebPress. I mean, in the crux of it is that, you know, if it wasn't for cloud ways, I wouldn't be in the WordPress community at all. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:08:58 No, I understand that for sure. Um, I got started because my friend and I started a comp, a nonprofit, and her husband built us a website and it happened to be WordPress, and that was my entrance into, into WordPress, and I worked freelance for several years before I actually do what I do today. So I love that we all have different stories that lead us to where we are, for sure. Yeah. Um, and I think you do a great job with community. You're really, um, and pulling people together from all over the world. The, the, the week leading up to the Word press birthday, you had all of these wonderful webinars and Yeah. Um, you know, asked me to moderate a panel on women in WordPress, and we literally were from all over the world, and that just made me so happy to be part of that. So thank you for all that you do. Um, when you think over WordPress and developers and hosting and all of the different things, what's something that you think when people build websites that they don't concentrate enough, um, focus enough on something that maybe they skip or when they're building sites, something that would make their sites better, that they often overlook?
Speaker 2 00:10:01 Well, I think the answer to this question is, uh, it differs over time, right? So if you have asked me this question five years ago, I would've accept them, said something else. But right now, I think a lot of people skip, uh, the part where accessibility is very important. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, because, uh, I have had a few sessions during the WordPress, uh, 20 celebration webinar series, and I've met a few people over the time where I've been involved within the community, and most of them, you know, are focusing on accessibility right now. And the only point that they stress on is that not a lot of website, uh, not a lot, not a lot of web developers are now focusing on accessibility. They don't, you know, take into account people of different, you know, uh, disabilities or people of different race and, and language where if someone is accessing your website from a region where they don't speak English, for example, how are they supposed to, you know, read your content and if someone who is, you know, visually impaired, how are they supposed to read your content?
Speaker 2 00:10:53 Is there, are there subtitles on your videos or are, is there transcript if someone is not able to hear properly? Is there a transcript for your videos? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think this is something that a lot of people should now, you know, take care of. And, uh, I belonging to a region where not a lot of people are considered about these things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, I have, you know, I, the, the talk that I gave in the WordPress media was exactly about this, where I told people that, you know, if you're building website, you should consider now, uh, people of different backgrounds, race, religion, languages, disabilities, and a lot of other things. So, uh, we can't be a hundred percent, but we can definitely be 80%, 85% there mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, uh, I think this is something that a lot of web developers should now focus on.
Speaker 1 00:11:34 Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you a hundred percent. Um, and every time I am told that something about one of my sites is not accessible, that I missed something, I love to be able to go back and fix it. Yeah. Um, and, and I love that we have plugins now that will tell you what's wrong with your site Exactly. So you can fix them Exactly. Before they're a problem for somebody, somebody else, which I think is just a, it's a great thing for sure. Yeah. So you've been in the WordPress community around six years or so. Um, what's something that you wish you had known earlier in that journey that would've made life a little bit easier for you today?
Speaker 2 00:12:08 Hmm. Earlier. Okay. So there are a lot of things I think, uh, that I have that I think I should have known earlier. But one thing that I think, uh, I should mention over here is that there is one incident I think I will answer this question with that incident. And I think it's, it's funny actually, I, I'm actually embarrassed to talk about it, but I think I should. So, uh, uh, back in the day, I used to work for a, for a WordPress resource. It was called WP Block, right? And it was actually, uh, a cloud-based resource. And, uh, so I used to work for that. I used to add content around WordPress for that resource, and we decided that we should, you know, uh, have a list of, uh, women who are very influential in WordPress, right? And I was like, yeah, that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 00:12:54 I think it'll work on Twitter. We will tag, you know, different women in WordPress who are achieving a lot of things. So let's do it. So we created a list and we created a very good content around it. We had all the pictures and the Twitter profiles. Now, the title of that, of that blog post was, uh, the Super Girls Over Place, right? And, uh, that was the moment when I clicked published after a few hours. And we, when we posted that on Twitter after a few hours, I got to know that not a lot of women are very pleased when you call them girls. So, <laugh> and I got to know that, okay? So that is something that I didn't know before, and there were a lot of, you know, influential WordPress women in my dms and on, on your, on the comments who were like saying to me that this is something that you shouldn't have done.
Speaker 2 00:13:39 I mean, this is not okay. And I had, I had to like, take a few hours to understand why is this not okay, right? Mm-hmm. Because I didn't know anything about that. But, and then one of those women came and said that, okay, so this is why this is not okay. I mean, if you're a woman, you can call us women Girls is something that, you know, it's not a very professional way to call someone a woman. So I was like, okay. So that is something that actually taught me, uh, a lot of things mm-hmm. <affirmative> to take care of in the future, right? So if you are addressing someone within the community, uh, whether they belong to any gender, you should have the proper, you know, words to address those people. And, uh mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, saying, saying, uh, especially calling a women a girl is some not something that is considered right in all the cultures and Yeah. Uh, and not, yeah. So, so that is something that I didn't know about. Uh, not exactly the workplace community, but you know, <crosstalk> in general
Speaker 1 00:14:28 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:14:28 In general. Yeah. So that is something that I, you know, that where I started to become very cautious about how to write a content, how to address someone in the blog post or on Twitter socials and everything like that. So yeah, that is something that I wish that I knew sooner, because it went not just for that day, for the entire month. So I <laugh> even, even though I corrected that, but people who are, yeah. Who are visiting, uh, the blog post later on, they were like saying, what's, or what do you mean if you're calling us a girl? So I was like, okay, so this should be corrected.
Speaker 1 00:14:58 It's, it's interesting. We, those lessons are so hard. Sometimes they're, they hurt, right? To hear those kinds of things, and they make you feel bad because you don't want to offend people, but wow, what lessons we take from them, right? So, like, I know I've, I've had gaps in the past where I'm like, oh, I wish I could just pretend that never happened. Right? But you grow from them, and that, and that's a good thing. If you do it right, you grow from them, and that's a good thing. Yeah. I think too. Yeah, that's, yeah. You, you bring up a good point is that there's cultural things, right? So WordPress is very much, um, uh, Euro and North American driven as far as community goes, right or wrong. That's just the way it is, right? Yeah. And so, in, in your culture, maybe saying girls is not as big a deal as it would be in Europe and North America, for example.
Speaker 1 00:15:45 And I, I encounter that at least on a weekly basis. You know, I, I put out every week a list of jobs, um, and places that are hiring, and oftentimes people don't read the first paragraph very well, and they think that I'm hiring. And so they'll dmm me and they'll ask me for a job, or they'll ask me to hire them. And I always, you know, and I say, I'm not a hiring manager, I just post jobs from other places to help you find, you know, jobs. And then this one person this week, and he was from Asia, I'm not gonna say what where specifically, but, um, he said something like, I need to tell you that you're beautiful. And I responded and said, would you say that to a man? Like, I'm not gonna hire you if you flatter me that way. That is like so creepy, right? So, but so, so calling us girls was better than that. <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:16:35 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:16:36 So, but yeah, people learn, and I'm okay giving people an education <laugh>, I'm not rude about it, but I'm okay saying, please don't ever do that to another woman, <laugh>. Oh my goodness. Um, what's something that you wish that, oh, I asked, I asked that question. Hold on. What are some of your favorite word camp or meetup talks or experiences that you had? Was there like one particular moment when there was like, I was like, say the, the sky opened and the sun showed down on you, and you had an epiphany, or, or just you met somebody really cool, like something that happened at either a Word camp or meetup that you could point to for that kind of experience?
Speaker 2 00:17:13 Uh, I think back in 2022, uh, when I attended my first word camp, uh, in Porto, and, uh, that was the first op first opportunity that I got to actually witness the WordPress community face-to-face. Because before then, before that time, I used to just, you know, have those people on calls on our webinars or podcasts. I've never met them before, ever in my life, right? So, uh, the word Camp Europe in Porto, and I think that was the word camp, which was the first word, camp after Covid. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the first physical word, camp after Covid. And it was, it was huge. Like a lot of, there was a lot of turnout because people were actually, you know, craving for, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> for, for a, for an actual word camp. And I think, uh, being over there, uh, meeting those people that have, you know, met, uh, probably tens and hundreds of times over webinars and calls, and they recognizing me, uh, by my face.
Speaker 2 00:18:11 So I think that was something that was a very proud moment for me, because I thought that all the work that I did over the past two years, three years, four years, is now, you know, uh, presenting itself in front of me in that way. Because, uh, I never thought that I would meet, uh, those people in real life first, and then let alone them recognizing me. You know, I was standing on the <inaudible> booth and people were coming to me and, you know, seeing my name. Obviously they were not seeing mu they were seeing Mohammad, but I was like, <laugh>, that's all right. Uh, but they recognizing me and pointing out the work that I, that I've done, uh, with them of like the podcast or the webinars that I did with them. So that was something that I was, uh, really proud of.
Speaker 2 00:18:55 And secondly, very recently when we, uh, when we pulled off the WB 20 celebration webinar series, I think that was, and then you coming to our booth and telling me that that was something very nice and you appreciated it. Uh, and then we pulled off the WordPress meetup in Karachi, uh, because we over here, uh, have a very small WordPress community. It's not very large, and our aim is to have a proper WordCamp in Karachi one day. Right. And this word, camp WordPress meetup was a step in that direction, right? And obviously, our aim is to reach, or actually, you know, organize a WordPress meetup, or sorry, word camp in, in Karachi one day, and then a word camp Pakistan, probably, maybe one day. So, uh, these are small baby steps, but hopefully over the years, two years, three years, four years, whenever the time is right, we will organize a WordCamp Karachi. Obviously, we will invite you as well to, to speak. Uh, so let's see what happens, but hopefully that will happen. So this WordPress meetup, something that I'm very proud of, and then all the things that I mentioned before.
Speaker 1 00:20:01 That's wonderful. I love that you have a body of work that you can look back to. Yeah. And know that others have appreciated it as well. It makes life in our job so much more fulfilling when we know that we're having an impact on others, which I think is great. So, absolutely. Tell us a little bit about, more about Cloud ways, and, you know, anything you wanna talk about what you do in community, and maybe, I know Word Camp US is coming up. I'm hoping that I get this episode out, uh, before actually, so that people can hear about, um, everything before, I know you won't be there, but Cloud Ways will, I'm sure. Yeah. Um, but tell us a little bit about what people can expect when they run, you know, come to your booths or when they, um, inquire about hosting with you.
Speaker 2 00:20:41 All right. So our booth, uh, is the booth number 6 0 7. So, uh, <laugh>, if anyone wants to, uh, you know, visit the booth, it's booth number 6 0 7 on our booth. We will have, uh, two of our team members, uh, Han and, and Han. Uh, Han is, uh, director marketing, and South Han is, uh, director product marketing. So these two are gonna be there on the booth, uh, waiting to obviously welcome anyone who wants to visit Cloud Ways. Obviously we will have, uh, a lot of swag, t-shirts, notebooks and, uh, things like that. But most importantly, we will have, uh, we will be there to, you know, tell you more about what Cloud Ways is and how it can help, uh, your business, your SMBs, your e-commerce stores, your agencies to grow. Uh, we have, uh, a lot of new features that we have launched this year.
Speaker 2 00:21:28 Obviously after the acquisition of Digital Ocean, we have, uh, sped up the process of launching new features. Previously, you know, it was, it was quite slow, and obviously we were, uh, you know, short of resources in, in, in, you know, a few departments. But now, you know, after the acquisition, we have started to release new features very quickly. So we have a lot of, a lot to talk about that as well. So if anyone wants to know about what new features we have and, you know, uh, how it can help out, how those features can help them, you know, grow faster, uh, and grow bigger, obviously they can hop onto the booth and, you know, talk to other s or always, and they will be able to fill you in on that. Obviously, uh, you can, you know, schedule meetings with, uh, with OAS and s as well.
Speaker 2 00:22:09 Uh, if you just go onto to the Clarus website right now, you will see a blog post over there, and there's a meeting link over there as well, so you can schedule a meeting. You won't have to wait in line to meet them. So, uh, so yeah, you can share the meeting with them and talk to them about different things or different partnerships if you want. Not, obviously, if you, if you're not a customer, if you don't want to be a customer, you can talk about different content partnerships, marketing partnerships over there as well. So, yeah, I mean, uh, we are there over there, uh, at again, booth number 6 0 7, uh, waiting for you to, you know, hop on and talk about the community cloud ways, WordPress and a lot more.
Speaker 1 00:22:42 And if you're listening to this episode afterwards, you missed it, but we hope that you got over there. <laugh>, <laugh>, you, you, you said one of my favorite swag items, which is notebooks, because I write things down all the time. Yeah. Fill them up. And then, you know, as I'm taking notes during meetings and things like that. So, um, what's your favorite piece of swag or kind of swag that you've gotten at different Word camps?
Speaker 2 00:23:04 Okay, so my favorite piece of swag was, uh, this talks that I got from, uh, from Nitro Pack. So <laugh> back in 2022, sorry, back in, yeah, 2022. When in, in Porto, uh, it was my first four camp, as I mentioned, and there was this Nitro pack booth, and they had this unique pair of socks. And, um, first I thought that I should just grab them and I didn't pay attention, but when I got home, those were really good. I mean, I was surprised <laugh>, that they had such good quality socks over there, just giving them away for free. Uh, so that was very interesting. Uh, uh, piece of swag that I got. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, in, in, in the word cam, usually it's, uh, there are shirts and, and notebooks are very common. Yeah. Uh, and pins obviously stickers, very common stuff, but these mm-hmm. <affirmative>, these pair of socks were something that I found very unique.
Speaker 1 00:23:54 I, um, I love notebooks, but I also like pins when people make the pins, like, and I have, yeah, you've probably seen me post before my, my bulletin board that's full of, yeah. Probably 500 different pins from Word camps. It's, it's like a, a memory wall of the places that I've been with WordPress. It's just pretty cool. So let me ask you some of my rapid fire questions. I always say I'll ask them rapidly, but you take your time to answer them. Okay. Okay. So the first question is, what are two or three must have plugins that you would recommend to somebody building their own website?
Speaker 2 00:24:27 Uh, well, I think the fur, the one or two or three plugins that I would recommend are Yost WB Rocket, I think slash Breeze. And I think, uh, object cash flow.
Speaker 1 00:24:40 Uh, and why do you recommend those ones?
Speaker 2 00:24:43 And I think, uh, why people should have these plugins is that if you're building a website, you would obviously need performance. You can't ignore that, uh, you need a backup. So obviously you can't ignore the backup plugins. And obviously, uh, you need ss e o, uh, Yost is the best in the business, so I think we should have these three plugins to get started with. Obviously you can add more once you, you know, grow your website and, you know, take up different projects. But I think these are the three plugins that you should begin with. At least
Speaker 1 00:25:13 Makes sense to me. I love everybody's answers are often very different, but Yost comes up an awful lot in this question. <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>, uh, at any point during your, your, your WordPress journey or working within the community, have you had a mentor, whether it was an official mentor, unofficial mentor, um, maybe somebody that you looked up to emulated somebody in, in the company, maybe, um, and who was it? Or is it,
Speaker 2 00:25:39 Yeah. So, uh, I had a chance, uh, to work with, I had the honor actually to work with, uh, Alexander Kovich. Uh, he used to work for Cloud Ways, uh, a few months ago. And we worked together in the community for about a year and a half. And he was the first guy who I met, who I worked with actually, who, uh, was so involved within the WordPress community. And he gave me all the insights on how the community works and how you should contribute. And he was, uh, the one who I actually went to Word Camp Europe with. And I was very nervous, obviously, because it was like, it was my first work camp, and it was a huge one. And he was the one who actually told me that, you know, what you should do and what you shouldn't do, more importantly, and how you should, you know, uh, talk to people how you should interact and how you should communicate and network.
Speaker 2 00:26:30 And, and I think that is something that really hit me because, uh, he was the guy who had such a big profile in the community. And obviously as compared to him, uh, I had a very low profile. And he, obviously, he took me under his wing and taught me a lot of things, not just regarding events, but regarding, you know, uh, a lot of other things within the WordPress community, how to, you know, uh, onboard guests for different webinars. He's, how to outreach someone, how to message someone on, on, on, on the official WordPress slack to not make it rude or creepy. So, so I think he was, uh, he was, he's something who, he's someone who I admire a lot, and I could, I think I will consider him as a mentor if he sees this, he will probably laugh, so <laugh>, but I actually consider, consider him someone who I have learned a lot from.
Speaker 1 00:27:15 That's wonderful. Um, so other than Alexander, who is someone that you admire in the WordPress community and why?
Speaker 2 00:27:23 Okay. So I had the chance to meet, uh, Carol from Yost, uh, back in Word Camp Asia in Bangkok. She came to our social event, and that was the first time that I met her, right. And, uh, it's not for WordPress reasons that I admire her. It's because I was so surprised, uh, at her knowledge regarding all the different cultures and religion actually. Uh, and she had so much insights and so much knowledge about the Asian culture and, and Islam actually, because, uh, she was talking to me and in our social event, and, uh, she started asking questions about, you know, our culture, our religion. And she knew the answers for almost all those questions. And I was like, okay, so you know, a lot. And she was like, yeah, I try to make sure that I am educated enough to understand different cultures, and when I talk to different people, I try to, you know, match the wavelength.
Speaker 2 00:28:11 So, so, so that I don't come off as offensive or route. And I actually admired that a lot because not a lot of people care about that nowadays, right. Uh, they're very self-centered and, but, but Carol, you know, uh, really inspired me to, you know, for, for me as well, to understand different cultures when I travel to different work camps now, to understand if I'm traveling to, for example, Italy next year, uh, and, and in what camp Europe, I should understand more about their culture now and, and how mm-hmm. How those people, you know, interact with and what are the do's and don'ts of being there. So I think, uh, yeah, Carol is someone who I have, you know, I admire a lot.
Speaker 1 00:28:48 That's Carol Olinger, I think you mean, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With her dog, Buffy <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:28:53 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:28:54 Yeah. I, I also admire her very much. And her session at WordCamp Asia was absolutely inspired about, um, you know, mental health and how we can do better for ourselves. So absolutely some, somebody I admire and look up to as well. Yeah. Um, what's something in WordPress that you'd still like to learn, but you haven't actually tackled yet?
Speaker 2 00:29:15 Uh, well, uh, as I mentioned before, I'm not someone who has a very technical background. I'm not a developer, I'm not a coder. Um, so sometimes in technical conversations I tend to get lost because I don't know where the conversation conversation is heading in. Someone is a developer in front of me, and he's talking about something that I don't know about. Uh, so I think as part of my job, I should know it, uh, even though it's not a hundred percent compulsory, but I think to be better at my job, I should know how to tackle those things and how to interact with developers now as well. So I think, uh, this is something that I have been trying to learn, uh, someone who doesn't have a technical background, someone who doesn't have the education, uh, that is required to, you know, build websites nowadays, it's very easy. You can get courses online and you can learn. I have, I started actually to learn, uh, these things, S T M L and CSS now. So I am getting there, but obviously, as you said, I'm t trying to tackle it now more aggressively.
Speaker 1 00:30:15 I love that. I think, um, for a lot of us marketers understanding the development side of things, um, might make our jobs a little bit easier for sure. Absolutely. But yeah, absolutely. It's not easy. It's so not easy, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:30:26 Yeah. It's not.
Speaker 1 00:30:28 Um, I ha I have a feeling I might know what you're gonna answer to this next question, but you could surprise me. What's the biggest mistake you've ever made in WordPress, and what did you learn from it?
Speaker 2 00:30:38 Okay, so, uh, biggest mistake, as I mentioned before, uh, the, the, the incident that I mentioned, I think that was something, uh, that I took, uh, a learning from mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so, so that is one of the things that I considered as a mistake, a huge mistake within the WordPress community. Uh, I think apart from that, uh, there haven't been a lot of mistakes, but I think there have been occasions where I think that I could have done better mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, uh, with either my work or with the person that I'm, you know, uh, interacting with. So mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there have been a lot of occasions where we have organized series or webinar series with, with, uh, five or six guests. And, you know, I think, uh, I believe that, you know, we could have pulled those off better if we would've, you know, uh, interacted with the guests pre-session a bit better, because, uh, it's actually actually very important when you are interacting with someone who is very new within the workplace community, who you don't know, who you are not familiar with, and who you have not co communicated with before, and jumping live on a session with them, uh, without having prior conversation with them, I think.
Speaker 2 00:31:48 Mm-hmm. It gets a bit tricky, you know, you have to get familiar with them. So it has happened quite a few times before where we have guests, you know, uh, waiting for, to be waiting to be acquainted with, with the host, and we actually just ignored those requests because we couldn't, we didn't see that that, that it was important back then. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And when the session actually hap live b and d, we could see that there is, you know, a lack of chemistry between the guest and the host. So I think those are the things that I, I, I'm still learning. I'm still trying to do better. Uh, obviously with, uh, WB 20 series, you could have, you, you saw that how we interacted before the session mm-hmm. <affirmative> and how it was, how the chemistry was there during the session. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we obviously, uh, that was something that I took a learning from in my previous, uh, experience.
Speaker 1 00:32:35 Uh, that's a and that's a great lesson for everybody. Yeah. So I'm glad that you said that it's, um, good advice for anybody else who's, uh, thinking about doing some of the things that you do. Yeah, I think that's great. What's your proudest WordPress moment?
Speaker 2 00:32:49 Uh, well, uh, proudest WordPress moment. Uh, I mentioned before that my proudest WordPress moment is organizing a WordPress Europe in Karachi. Uh, we are, uh, a very small community here. As I mentioned before, it's not more than a hundred people. Uh, the challenge obviously is to, you know, uh, make that community larger over the period of time. And obviously when we conduct a or when we host a meetup, we see very similar faces, uh, in every meetup, right? It's, it's those similar 50 60 people who are, you know, attending the same meetups again and again and again. And the challenge is to get more new faces into the community. And when we, you know, conducted the last WordPress meetup, we actually saw a few new faces, right? And that was actually, uh, very proud moment for us because we saw that, you know, the community is, you know, kind of improving.
Speaker 2 00:33:40 It's, uh, it's getting bigger because when we see, uh, our neighboring countries within the same region, we see, you know, we, we look at the example of Bangladesh, India, uh, we see that the community over there is, is huge. I mean, uh, uh, and, and it's growing, growing every day. You, you see word camps happening in Bangladesh, they're massive. I mean, I see, I see, uh, you know, uh, word Camp DACA and Word Camp still, that happened very recently mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and those were massive word camps. Like they had a lot of people over there. And I just thought that why couldn't we do the same? I mean, uh mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, obviously we have the, we have the people, we have the talent, we have the curiosity. I mean, why can't we do the same thing over here? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, uh, yeah, it was actually very proud of moment for us that we conducted this meetup, and obviously it'll open doors for more in the future.
Speaker 1 00:34:27 Absolutely. I think that's wonderful. Congratulations on all of that work, for sure. If you weren't working in WordPress or tech in general, what's another career that you might like to try?
Speaker 2 00:34:37 Uh, well, uh, there are two answers to it. The first is, uh, I would've been a doctor because my father is one mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so if I wasn't, uh, if I didn't pursue this myself, obviously I would've gone that way because my father would've influenced me to go over there. Uh, and his work would've influenced me to go in that direction. The other is, uh, he would probably laugh on this one, but the other is, uh, cricketer, because cricket is something in, in Pakistan, it's, it's very popular. There are two things that people are obsessed with. One, one I mentioned is tea, and the other is cricket, right? So, if I wasn't in this business, I would have probably gone the other way. Obviously, my father would've objected <laugh> a lot, but <laugh>, I think I would, I would, I would've made it. Yeah. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:35:25 And do you play, do you play cricket?
Speaker 2 00:35:27 Yeah, so, uh, we actually play, we try to play every Thursday mm-hmm. Uh, uh, with our, uh, office colleagues. So we, we have this indoor cricket scene nowadays going on a lot where, you know, we can, you can book the place for like two hours, three hours mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and then you can, you can play cricket over there. If you ever get the chance to, to visit this region, you will see that, you know, every street is on in the evening is filled with cri, you know, kids playing cricket because we don't have enough grounds over here mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So kids, you know, take over the streets and, you know, they play cricket all evening, sometimes in the night as well. So, uh, so yeah, I mean, cricket is, is something that we are really obsessed with.
Speaker 1 00:36:06 I love that. Um, I've seen it on tv. I've never actually witnessed cricket in person, so maybe, maybe someday. Yeah, I will visit and there will, and I'll be able to see cricket in person. Yeah. Um, what's something on your bucket list?
Speaker 2 00:36:20 Well, uh, something on my bucket list. I actually wrote that down somewhere. Let me see. Yeah, there is a list I have actually made.
Speaker 1 00:36:28 Hmm. I love that. Yeah. So you could check things off if they're on a list.
Speaker 2 00:36:31 Yeah. So, uh, there are actually two things, uh, that are left on the bucket list. And, uh, it's not a very usual list. So, uh, the two things are I want to backpack across Europe. Uh, it's, uh, I visited Europe twice now, and those were very small visits, uh, mostly due to work, and one of the visits for was due to, you know, work camp mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And whenever I leave that place, I obviously, you know, think about, you know, going back again and exploring more because, uh, when you are there for work, you can only experience, you know, uh, not that much. But, uh, when you're there for, you know, exploring, you can, you get to see a lot more things. So I want to, you know, uh, you know, just pack my bags and, and go and, and explore Europe, every town, every small village and everything.
Speaker 2 00:37:22 So that is what I, I want my bucket list. And the second thing is obviously the holy ri image that we do every year. So that is something that I want to do. Uh, and the reason why it's on the bucket list is because it's very expensive <laugh>, and it's, uh, I bet. And it's, yeah. And it's, uh, a 40 day pilgrimage, so it's, uh, it's very lengthy. So, and it requires a lot of physical, you know, exertion. So that is something that I want to do in my life. Hopefully I get a chance to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:37:52 I hope you get to do both of those things. Yeah, absolutely. Show us or tell us about a hidden talent that you have that maybe the rest of the word WordPress community doesn't know about.
Speaker 2 00:38:03 Okay, so the hidden talent is, it's, it's probably not as hidden in, in our region, uh, because, uh, it's something that almost everyone can do. Uh, so I can dance really well, uh, and I would love to show you now, but I don't want to, you know, scare my neighbors <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:38:21 So, uh, so yeah, I mean, in, in, in this region, you will find everyone who, you know, who loves to dance. And, and you know, we, we are a, uh, we are a, we are a group of people who have been brought up with, uh, music and, and dancing and everything. We are influenced a lot by, by Bollywood music, by Indian music mm-hmm. <affirmative> who are, which comes from our neighboring country. So, so yeah, almost everyone over here can sing and can dance. Um, so, uh, so yeah, that is something that I can do. Uh, not a lot of people in the WordPress community know about it.
Speaker 1 00:38:53 Well, I hope I get to see that someday too, because I bet you're very good <laugh>. Okay. How do we find you on social media? So if people are looking to get in touch with you, email, social, what's the best way to find you?
Speaker 2 00:39:05 I think the best way to find me is on Twitter. I'm most active over there. Uh, so my handle is moham at moham mu, it's M U H A double m A D M o, double Z. Uh, so I'm there, uh, if anyone wants to, you know, get in touch, uh, you can, my dms are open, obviously, so they can get in touch with me on Twitter.
Speaker 1 00:39:23 Excellent. And we'll put that information in the show notes. So if you're listening to this, you can go to WP coffee talk.com, look for Moises episode, and you'll have all of the information there. Is there anything else you'd like to share with us today before we wrap up our session?
Speaker 2 00:39:37 Well, uh, not as, I think you have asked me a lot of, uh, almost everything that I have to share, <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:39:45 I do a pretty good job of that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:39:47 So I'm an open book actually, so I don't hide anything per se. So, uh, even if you had any other questions or personal stuff, I would've answered those questions as well. Uh, so, uh, lastly, I just want to thank you for having me on, on your podcast. It's actually, uh, if, uh, if I'm there next time, and if you ask me what's your proudest moment, I will mention this moment right here, because ah,
Speaker 2 00:40:09 Yeah, it's something that I am, uh, that I look, I have looked forward to, you know, uh, for, uh, a long period of time. Obviously I wanted to build a relationship with you before actually, you know, come up on here. So, uh, I got the chance to do that and in, in, in Asia now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, uh, in, in, in WordCamp Europe and now over here, and through different webinars as well. Yes. Uh, and one of the things that I missed out, uh, on, if something is someone who I admire, uh, one of those people are you Oh, thank you. Because, uh, uh, especially what, what moment that struck me most was that when you travel all the way to Bangkok to attend Word Camp Asia, and not a lot of people from us came because the flight was too long, obviously
Speaker 1 00:40:51 It's very long
Speaker 2 00:40:53 <laugh>. Yeah. And you managed to come. And I was like, that is something that, you know, inspired me a lot because of all the things of all the things that you do in, within the WordPress community. I think that actually tops the list. Uh, you came to support the Asian community and uh, obviously that was something that, you know, a lot of people talked about it, uh, in, in Pakistan and in Thailand as well, that, you know, Michelle came to that word cam. I think that was the highlight of, of the event, I would say. So, yeah, I mean, I think that is pretty much it. Thank you so much, Michelle, for having me today.
Speaker 1 00:41:23 Well, thank you so much for being here. It's an honor for me as well, and I am just so, um, enamored with the work you're doing, and I can't wait to watch you continue to do amazing things in the community and, and for your career to grow. So thank you so much for taking the time to be with me, especially in your evening on a Saturday. So I appreciate you very much, <laugh>. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you. Thank you. All right. We'll see everybody on the next episode and we'll see Louise in Word Camps around the world coming up. So <laugh>, thank you all. We'll see you later. Thank you.
